Carl Pullein is a renowned productivity and time management coach. With his hundreds of Youtube videos, podcasts episodes, blog, weekly newsletter, courses and books he helps people around the world to get their things done.

Carl Pullein in conversation with the 2pt5 innovator podcast

Carl Pullein loves to create himself and sees time management as a tool to achieve the things that are important in life. With his work, including his COD system, he is reducing the complexity of systems such as GTD Getting Things Done because he has “an allergy to complexity”.

This episode is for innovators that want to get things done.

Find Carl Pullein on his websiteApple Podcast and Youtube.

The COD system

Find Carl’s free COD course here. It is a great help.

Give a review

If you have liked the show, give it a review on Podchaser, Apple Podcast or Spotify.

Join The 2pt5 mailing list

Videos mentioned

David Allen TEDx Talk

“The art of stress free productivity is a martial art.”

Richard St. John TED-Talk: 8 Secrets of Success

  • Passion – have passion about what you do
  • Work – do the hard work and have fun doing it – Workofrolics, be good at it and practice a lot
  • Focus – focus on one thing
  • Push – push yourself through shyness and self-doubt – have somebody to help you push
  • Serve – serve others something of value
  • Ideas – follow ideas – listen, observe, be curious, ask questions, problem solve, make connections
  • Persist – through failure, crap (criticism, rejection, a**holes, pressure)

Joseph McClendon III



This is an automatic transcription which was slightly edited. The text is raw and might contain errors.

Klaus Reichert
This is the 2.5 conversations connecting innovators. My name is Klaus. This podcast is hosted in Baden-Württemberg in Germany. Today I’m talking to a Productivity coach Carl Pullein about the motivation to innovate and about getting things done this an innovator and about the love for creating things with his hundreds of videos on YouTube. His podcast, is blog articles, his newsletter. Carl is helping lots of people around the world getting their things done doing the things that are important for them. Helping innovators to create things. Let’s start the show.

I’m here with Carl Pullein and it’s a great pleasure to have you on the podcast Carl. Thank you very much for joining me.

Well thank you very much for inviting me.

This is a great pleasure to talk to you.

You’re a world renowned productivity expert. You do a lot of videos online. You do you have your own podcast. I’m really impressed by all the work that you’re doing that you’re putting out there. A lot of it is free. A lot of this is that you do it just to support people to move on. And I think that is very very impressive to see that.

Carl Pullein
Well it is actually my goal is to try and help a million people to become better organized and more productive because I know that that really helps reduce stress levels and you know stress is never a good thing. So my way of helping is by helping people to become better organized and more productive.

But but you’re not a doctor.

No not at all.

So it’s like the productivity clinic that you’re doing.

Yes. That’s probably about it.

Do you accept people that have some sort of health insurance to pay for courses and coaching? 🙂

No I’ve not been FDA approved yet so sadly it’s not the way to go.

Carl, please complete this sentence: Getting Things Done GTD is….

… one of the best productivity methodologies you could invest your time in. It is I think now the foundation of probably almost every productivity system out there because the fundamentals are just well made, they just make perfect sense it’s like collect everything and decide what it means to you put it in a place where you can find it and then do it when it needs doing. That’s a really really really basic outline of what GTD getting things done is but essentially it is now the framework if you like for pretty much every system out there these days you just described GTD in a very short manner a few sentences only.

And some people are out there that try to make to try to change that into some sort of science special signs and make it very special and hard to understand. When I look at your stuff and your courses your videos I get the impression that you like simple things are the way you explain GTD is something simple so everybody can relate to it and pick up the methodology quite easily.

Well I have an allergy to complexity. I just I just complete as soon as something becomes complex I turn off and but if it’s something that I really want to understand I will do it I’ll do go through it and read the books and read the data but then I have to break it down into really simple terms and kind of thing. What was what was the goal here. What’s the outcome that we’re trying to achieve with this methodology or this system or or this approach. And again I will always come back to basic principles because then I can understand it and I can teach it once I understand it properly so.

So you’re doing some sort of translation from say complex too easy to understand or make it digestible in the way you present it in different elections for example.

Well I think for me it’s about how to make it practical for people to use on a daily basis. I think a lot of particularly academics and I don’t have anything against academics but but academics tend to as are on such a high theoretical level it’s very hard to connect that to not necessary the real world but to a practical application and I suppose the way I look at it is I want to be the bridge between that you know between the theoretical idea behind something and the real practical everyday use of that idea because there’s some really good ideas out there but they’re often way too complex for people to want to implement in a daily basis.

That’s interesting because I think that of my my consulting and coaching work also. But what I find is that some people don’t take that seriously. They don’t understand the simplest or the beauty of simplicity and confuse that with maybe not knowing enough.

Well it does that. And I think there’s a lot of things that when you when you dive into that complexity there’s too much to take in. And quite often I mean if I think back to the Getting Things Done book for example you’ve probably got a hundred pages on collecting but really when we’re collecting what are we doing. Something’s on your mind. Get it off your mind. But actually if you read those 100 pages it just it does make complete sense and it gives you so many different scenarios where you would probably not think about collecting an idea. But when she read the book you realize, Ah that makes sense. But you know the idea of collecting for me is important.

I mean people come up with these wonderful thing it’s the UCT which is ubiquitous collection tool.

Really it just means a phone these days because it collects everything on a phone or before the smartphone certainly was like a little notebook. Yeah that was the UCT but it has this really smart complex expression for it but I use that jokingly now. But people did actually use what’s your use. I’m going: What? You know ubiquitous collection tool huh? You mean a piece of paper. Yes.

It’s like the rocket science term.

Yeah. Exactly. They’re using way complex terms for somebody that you know something on your mind get into something you know a notebook a phone. Anything just get it written down.

Into your inbox.

Yeah. I mean then you go down the steps you know you go down the road of getting things done or or whatever because then you’ve got to process it you decide what is it what does it mean to use it does get a little bit more complex but you know we tend to we as human beings we have a bad habit of over complicating things.

I’ve seen several of your videos or your courses and it was very obvious to me that you’re trying to sort of use the same speed that people have so that they don’t get lost in your course. You are trying to make things very simple and cut it down into small pieces so people can digest it and I found that very very good too to see even. I am also some sort of productivity expert myself but it helped me a lot to understand some things better so I’m. Thank you very much for that.

It is always a pleasure to help people.

Yeah so but we all have to thank David Allen and some say it’s better not to meet your heroes but all you have had recently interviewed him for your own podcast. How was that to meet the creator of getting things done for you as an experience.

I think he’s a fantastic guy. I mean I actually met him in Seoul three years ago. We had lunch together here in Seoul when he was visiting. He did a book publishing tour in Korea. And I met him here in Seoul and so I’ve actually met him before. So he’s a really really nice guy and one of the things that always struck me when I met him in person was that he is probably one of the most relaxed people I’ve ever met. I mean he genuinely does live the GTD life. Everything is in control and when we had lunch you know he was all there 100 percent. Even though he was waiting for a call from his assistant to give him the flight time to Tokyo. So he didn’t know whether it was going to be later that evening or it was gonna be first thing in the morning. Now if that was me and I was waiting to find out you know sometime in the next few hours I might be flying I would be quite stressed. But he was just well I nothing I can do now I just have to wait for the call and plus I have a system I can rely on.

That’s very very cool. I remember a TED talk he has given where he also seemed very relaxed about his system and that was very very good to see him in person at least in video.

Yeah. No he really does genuinely live the system and he is a very very nice guy and I love the chat that I had with him on my podcast about you know GTD and everything was just fantastic. Even every time I hear him speak I learn something new it is just you know he’s one of those things that is one of those guys who’s had 40 50 years of you know of living this GTD lifestyle if you like. Mm hmm. And it really shows and you can pick pick up things every time you hear him speak or whatever you do learn something.

I guess once you have written the book one could assume that this person doesn’t really develop the whole thing further. But actually it’s once you have started ideas and they have their own life in your head and they further develop and probably you would have to write another book to include all the things he has learned over the past 30 years.

Well he did update. He updated the GTD in 2015. So that was what 14 years after it first came out he did update it but actually interestingly on the last month I went to Tony Robbins event in Singapore which is an amazing event. But before I went I started reading his books and he’d written two books on self development books and he wrote them in the early 1990s. And what I found fascinating was many of the principles he wrote about in the early 1990s he’s still teaching today but he’s teaching it in a more modern version. So the analogies the stories that he uses to illustrate the principle have been updated. So in the early 1990s he was talking about President Reagan for example because I think President Reagan was not it wasn’t long after he stopped being president.

I think I see he did mention George Bush as well with the original George Bush not George Bush junior. And so it was kind of interesting that these stories that he wrote then but these days the principles the foundations of what he’s teaching is still the same today but with newer stories.

So it’s like time proven principles, they still very much apply today.

Interestingly enough you are basing your work on the GTD method but you also made it even more accessible with your COD or the two plus eight systems that you have developed.

Yeah because when I looked at my own way of using GTD I realized I was using it really COD which was just collect organize and do. And I think when I first read the GTD book I was spending 40 50 percent of my time just organizing my system and I realized hang on a bit. That’s not what this is meant to be you know. And so but that’s normal. I think a lot of people do that. But you refine it over time. And what I discovered after a few years is that I wasn’t really following exactly the GTD system anymore. It evolved into its own thing which I when I analyzed it when I kind of stepped back and said Well what am I actually doing here and collecting. Because you cannot avoid that but I am organizing which means that what I’ve collected has to go to its rightful place. And then the rest of time I’m doing so I’m not following necessarily the five GTD steps. I’m just following three steps.

But that way it’s much more accessible for most of the people.

I think it is. I think for most people find it much easier to because the COD system it is just a framework you know you choose whatever tools you want to use you use those tools.

It’s how you work it because everyone thinks differently.

How about if you have lots of stuff that sort of enters your system then it’s sort of collecting part will be will take a lot of time. Is that still covered with COD.

Well it is because the whole point with COD for me when I when I know I said it’s 100 pages on collecting in the GTD book I could probably write a hundred pages and collecting too because what it really comes down to is how fast can you make it. Because the faster you can make collecting the less likely you will resist.

OK. Does this come from your experience as a runner, as a sportsperson?

Well yeah in a sense yes it’s just it comes back was when when I thought about why is it that I don’t do something it’s because it’s too difficult or it’s going to take too much time. So if I can reduce that barrier to doing something so a really really classic example and everyone can try this one of the best things you can do when you wake up in the morning is to drink a glass of water.

It’s just scientifically proven to instantly give you an amazing amount of energy and it’s just it just makes you feel brilliantly. But the problem the reason why most people won’t do it is because they don’t prepare the water the night before. But if you get a glass of water. Ideally if you get a flask so then it stays cold and you put it at the side of your bed you’ve reduced the resistance so when you wake up it’s there you drink. But if you don’t you probably go put the kettle on and make coffee first OK. And you might even forget to try. Yeah. Often you will forget to do it. So the idea is is that you reduce the resistance so you put the glass of water next to your bed. So when you wake up. Bang.

So that’s a very simple example for reducing the resistance and you can use that.

You should use that for any bigger task that you have if you actually want to get it done.

Yeah. So when it comes to the COD system it’s about really making sure that collecting is easy even if it just means have a pad and a pen on. If you’re right handed on the right hand side of your desk if you’re left handed on the left hand side of your desk because even that if you think I’ll remember it you won’t do well you will forget it. So if you if you can just pick up with your writing hand and just quickly write it down. You know that’s one way. Another one is learn the keyboard shortcuts on your computer if you’re based you know sat at a desk most of the day. I know for me to collect something into Todoist which is the to do list I use I just use shift command A and I just do that without thinking.

I started using my iPhone and Siri to dictate these things. And it works quite well also.

Yeah Siri is a great one for it as well and I use an app on there as well for the same thing just so fast. But once you reduce the resistance you will collect great learning.

It surely helped you to be more productive. Your own system and GTD the last time I checked you created 645 videos on YouTube 100 podcast episodes. Also a bunch of courses and books. Where do you get your energy and your motivation from to do all that giant work.

Well for me the biggest one is I love creating that that’s just my brain never switches off it’s always thinking of new ideas. So I love the creation part. But a lot of it is I don’t know this is something about helping people. And I remember years ago people say you know I think it was a TED talk I watch was I think it’s the secrets of success by Richard St. John or something I can’t remember his name but it’s a TED talk that was done years ago and he said that don’t do for money do it to serve or something like that. And I was you know 10 15 years ago I get poo Ha ha ha ha. You know that is just rubbish. But actually you do when you start doing it to help other people you genuinely feel like so much better if you’re just doing it for the money. It’s it’s empty. It’s not a good feeling but when you’re doing it because you genuinely want to help people it’s that feeling of fulfillment that you get. That really drives you to keep going and I think for me that’s one of the things I mean I can’t imagine not doing my YouTube videos. I mean that’s free content that I’m doing. I just love doing them every week and a couple of weeks ago I was in hospital having just minor surgery a hernia operation just a minor surgery and I’m laying in the hospital bed having just come out to the operating room thinking when am I going to be able to do my videos.

I was thinking you know really I should be taking a break here. I don’t think people will be upset if I miss this week but I was really uncomfortable missing the idea of missing doing a video.

So did you help yourself with say your iPhone and do a quick recording anyway.

No I did manage to wait. I came out to the hospital on the Thursday and on the Friday I recorded this video. So I felt very comfortable once it was done.

OK. So it’s not wrong to say you are very very driven.

When I work with companies I always say I’ll ask for the vision that they are following and because actually it’s the same wording

If you do it for the money it doesn’t work but if you do it for some let’s say greater thing or greater goal. Lots of things happen. Extra people are more motivated for example or more willing to listen or whatever. So that has to be something very very genuine and the vision that you have for that you combined with your motivation is you want to help one million people.

I don’t know how I’m going to measure that by the way it’s because technically on my YouTube channel when I was looking it’s that I think there’s been over 2 million views but the problem there is how many people how many individual people is that that’s just views. You know the podcast is at well over 100000 downloads. But again that’s could be one person multiple downloads. So I don’t know how I’m going to measure it. But you know the vision is to be able to help a million if not 10 million 100 million people over the next 5 10 20 years. Because I’ve seen the benefits of being better organized and more productive and good with time management. I’ve seen the benefits. I never I never feel stressed. I certainly never feel like I’ve got too much work on and it is actually a really nice feeling because it helps you to make better decisions. And I find a lot of people I work with here in Korea. They said I haven’t got time to get organized. I was thinking aha. You know well here’s where the bigger problem is.

You know I don’t have time for time management. Exactly.

But is there something that you’d tell them like a like a simple sentence that that makes them understand that they should do something about that well use a simple question to ask themselves where do you think this is going to end up know because you are only human you’re not a machine. Something will break you know either you will make a huge mistake one day and get fired and lose the job that you’re spending all this time working on. Or just mentally and physically you will break. And you know you’ve got to get people to really understand like right now they may feel they can manage it but in the long term if you don’t get a handle on that time and the amount of work and how you’re managing that stress level it really can be a huge problem in the long term. And so and another one that you can do is always point out the really successful people in their company I don’t know those people but I say you know how do they manage their time. And you know when they start because modelling you know modelling successful people modelling the people you admire is a great way to learn. And you know we all have different heroes.

So it’s about finding the right people and thinking how do they do that and you know I’m always looking at how successful people manage their time. And some really fascinating insights.

I have read somewhere that for you, productivity and time management is something that is actually comes down to life management not just to get things done but to get things accomplished in life over a longer period of time to get the stuff done that are important for you for your life for the life of the people around you.

It is I mean that’s to me that’s what it really boils down to is I was about to say spend less time at work and more time at home. But that doesn’t necessarily solve the problem. It’s about really being managing your time so that you can spend more time doing the things that you want to do with the people that you want to do it with.

That’s to me what time management and productivity is all about and what I really like is that you combine that with let’s say the call to action to do like a year planning at the end of a year like right now it’s October and you are asking people to pick up or to start to collect ideas for the next year or two to get into the thinking process and into our planning process for the next year. And I think that’s a very clever and good combination because it’s not about doing things it’s about getting the framework or the priorities for the things to do in the next year.

It’s about bubbles you know bubbling up the ideas doing it. Now in October because the one of the main reasons why New Year’s resolutions don’t work there’s multiple reasons why they don’t work. But one of the biggest reasons is people get to like the Christmas period and the 26th or 27th or the 28th of December until new year. What am I going to do. And then they rush and they just think oh I’ll quit smoking I’ll cut down drinking I’ll lose weight and you’re all the same ones and they fail.

And then what happens is they get into these cycles. “I’m no good at resolutions or goals.” “I keep failing” but actually it’s not that. It’s not that they’re no good at doing goals it’s just they’re approaching it in the wrong way. If you start in October just brainstorming ideas just thinking about what would you like to change about yourself what would you like to change away about the way you work your lifestyle just thinking about how the things that you would like to change by the time we get to December you’ve probably got five to 10 things that you think you know what I could do something and change that and make things better. And so it’s always good to start. And October is a great time going into the last quarter. We’re all winding down the year and it’s time to get excited about the next year.

What about if you if you are in it not just about yourself but about say your team you’re part of the company or your company if you’re like a startup or working for a small company. Is there some process yet that you can recommend in one of your courses for example that helps the team to come to to prepare the next year.

Well for team based productivity is really comes down to the communication from the top.

You know whenever I’ve helped companies in general with their productivity I can guarantee that one of the biggest problems is going to be how the objective or outcome of that they’re trying to achieve is communicated in hearing career. There’s whenever they do that in English they have this bad habit of using very big words and long sentences and there’s just no emotion or meaning and it looks good it looks great. I mean there’s a lot of complex words in there but when I’m thinking about death that’s not going to motivate anybody. So the way that the way that project goals or outcomes are communicated or goals for the next year or the things that you want to achieve next year within a team how you communicate those is really really important is to being clear simple actionable terms. And so that people can measure.

So I’ve had one company where just the sales team had 32 KPI is key performance in the analysis going. How can that be key performance indicators when there’s 32 of them I mean. Which one do I focus on. You know it’s impossible. You know pick one and measure it and stick with it and they will have a lot more success.

I sometimes hear innovators talking about something like Oh there’s so many possibilities so many opportunities are so many ideas and there’s just so little time to have an idea of how to select from a large number of ideas and opportunities. If you’re just full of ideas as I say a startup person as a creator as an innovator.

That’s an interesting when I heard I heard an analogy on this one recently. I wish it was mine but it isn’t. But there’s a guy who I was a teacher at the event I was in Singapore called Joseph McClendon III. And he was talking about the same thing and he said look if you think about it as a horse race and you know you’ve got like these 10 horses when the gates opened 10 horses run out and you have no idea which horse is going to win.

So what do you do. You just pick one just pick one and run with it. Because how do you know which is going to be the successful one at some point in the race and at some point in the process of developing that one idea you will realize it’s not going to work and you can jump off onto a different horse or you can jump off onto a different idea.

You know I’ve had loads of ideas for courses and often a lot of them I will just start I think this is a really good idea and I start planning it out and I could spend a week planning it out in my spreadsheets and you know organizing how I’m going to do the lessons and at the end of the week and going you know what.

This isn’t going to work you know. I don’t feel it and I’ll just scrap it and some may say well you’ve just wasted a week I thought. Now what I’ve done is I’ve learned that that’s not going to work. Here’s the way the way that I’m looking at it it’s taken me a week to figure out but he’s not going to work. But I don’t throw away the actual planning sheets. I just you know I archive them. I might come back to that in a year or two’s time. But it does. You’ve just got to pick something and run with it. I think a lot of people don’t achieve their potential because they get paralyzed by all these ideas and this comes back to GTD or card collect the ideas store them in a place but pick one and run with it. And you know you’ll soon figure out whether it’s gonna be a success or not a success. You know if you think about when Microsoft started and Bill Gates and his team I think is Paul Allen you know was sitting in the dormitory coding all night trying to get dos created you know at that time they did not know it was going to be successful. True. Nobody knew it. It did become successful and we look at it from the perspective of 2019. But if you were back in 1985 or whenever they were writing that code they had no idea if this was gonna be a success or not. But they just went with the idea and it turned out to be a huge success. And I’m pretty sure it is the same with Steve Jobs and Steve was the arc and all the other people like the Google boys when they started Google they did not know at that time whether it’s gonna be successful or not. But they just run with the idea and it developed and it became what is today Google. I bet you the vision about you where Google is today the Google boys as I call them I bet they had no idea it was going to turn out that way when they were sat in their dormitory creating that first google search box. I bet they never expected it to turn out the way that it did. So you’ve got to start somewhere. You just got to run with it.

Okay. And it was probably just one of these things of their ideas that they worked on that they developed and that they felt good about Yeah it could have been they they may have worked on 20 30 40 50 ideas before they eventually got to the Google we have today so gut feeling is important too.

Yeah just pick something and go with it. Eventually you’ll figure out this isn’t going to work. And then you can go back onto something else but you’ve just got to go with it because the worst thing you can do is not do anything.

Thank you Carl. I think that is a great way to finish our podcast. Thank you very much for having this conversation with me today.

It’s been a pleasure. Thank you for having me on the show.

Music by

Immex – Soundcloud & conversation

Previous ArticleNext Article

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.


Cole Raven, Podchaser Co-founder about discovering and sharing new podcasts, tools for remote teams, the value of Reddit for business and about serendipity in innovation

Cole Raven is the Co-founder of Podchaser. The platform helps to discover and share new podcasts. It is also a great tool for podcast creators to connect. The company is run remotely by a group of people that partly meet on Reddit.

Cole Raven Podchaser

I have reached Cole Raven, the co-founder of Podchaser, while he was traveling to Hawaii. Incidently a place I have very fond memories of, since I learned flying and received my private pilot’s licence on Oahu.

We talked about the value of platforms for discovery and community building. About remote teams, long time friendships and new friends found on Reddit. About serendipity in innovation and startup.

We also talked about remote companies, worldwide hiring, tools like Slack and Basecamp, building communities. About building a podcast platform, sharing data & credits, a growing central database for podcasts. And about fundraising in the podcasting world and new features coming along.

Enjoy the conversation!

Find out more about Podchaser on their website, follow them on Facebook and Twitter.

Follow Cole on Podchaser

Links to mentions in the episode

Gimlet Media produce great narrative podcasts in New York City

Audio dramas on Podchaser

Zoom helps to do remote work

Basecamp Project Tool and company

Rework – Basecamp’s podcast

Slack the chat tool mentioned

Join the Podchaser Slack channel and help to develop the platform

Podcast Movement

iHeart Media Podcasts

Westwood One with Cumulus Media

PlayerFM podcast app


NPR National Public Radio

The Business Insider article featuring Podchaser

The Reddit conversation about podcasting

The personal Podchaser feed


Join The 2pt5 mailing list

Give a review

If you have liked the show, give it a review on PodchaserApple Podcast or Spotify.


In preparation

Music by

Immex – Soundcloud & conversation


The American Innovator Paul Akers about the thrill of creating and sustaining

In the world of Innovation Paul Akers is a Star in his own right. He is an entrepreneur, author, teacher. And a lean-maniac (his own words).

After setting up a business for (wood) workshops (FastCap) he discovered the Toyota Production System (TPS) and was blown away by their lean principles. He has now written several books on Lean and he travels the world to educate & speak about Lean principles & Lean manufacturing. Paul has a podcast called The American Innovator where he shares about his Lean & travel adventures. Today Paul is using his lean principles in business and in life.

His podcast, YouTube channel and books have been watched, heard- and are read by millions. He has his very own way of building and more importantly sustaining his business. Paul is very intense about lean principles which he applies to the business world as well as his private life. It helped him to built a company with sought after tools as well as train for two Ironman runs in his fifties.

At its core, FastCap is a Lean company, determined to continuously improve everything, every day. FastCap’s products reflect the idea that everything can be improved and the best ideas come from the shop floor.

Ever wondered how an innovation culture is being built and sustained?

This episode is for innovators that want to build an innovation culture.

Find more information here:

Listen & subscribe

Give a review

If you have liked the show, give it a review on PodchaserApple Podcast or Spotify.

Join the 2pt5 mailing list

Latest episodes, posts and news delivered right to your inbox!

Stuff mentioned in the episode


Baden-Württemberg, where the podcast ist hosted


Black Forest Schwarzwald


Bob Taylor Guitars

TPS – Toyota Production System

11 Points that hinder innovation (German, PDF)


One of Paul’s videos: Creating an Innovative Culture

Who are the 2%? video

1. They are incredibly humble and give others credit.

2. They love people and put others first.

3. They get excited about the simplest improvement.

4. They give credit to others and acknowledge their achievements.

5. They acknowledge the workers for the smallest improvement.

6. Chaos drives them CRAZY!

7. They love to learn.

8. LEAN is the essence of their success.

9. They live a life of urgency not emergency. Fix it now.

10. They are willing to do the hard work. LEAN is simple, but it’s hard work.

11. They listen up to what others are saying.

12. They relentlessly challenge themselves and their people.

13. They see LEAN as finding a hidden treasure.

14. They see a rainbow when there is no rainbow. They see the possibility in every situation.

Kaizen Foam 

Open Innovation at FastCap

Share your product idea with Paul Akers at FastCap

More links

Dr. Thomas Sowell Wikipedia

Everest Basecamp 

Mount Kilimanjaro

Eat Move Sleep by Tom Rath

The American Innovator on Apple Podcasts 

Podcast resources


Listen Notes 


The American Innovator, music by Alan Feinberg, on Spotify


This transcript was automatically created, is not edited and will have faults.

[0:09] This is the 2.5 conversations connecting innovators. My name is Klaus.
Ever wonder how an innovation culture is being built and sustained over a long time.
In the world of innovation. My guest today Paul Akers is a star in his own right.
He’s an entrepreneur author teacher and a lean maniac.
His podcast YouTube channel and books have been watched heard and read by millions.
He has his very own way of building and more importantly sustaining his business.
All is very intense about lean principles which he applies to the business world as well as his private life.
It helped him to build a company that sought after products for woodworkers as well as trained for to Iron Man runs in his 50s.
Paul sat down for a conversation with me an opportunity which I enjoyed tremendously.

[1:12] Music.

[1:18] Paul Akers the American innovative welcome to the 2.5 All right.
I’m really happy to have this conversation with you.
And I know you speak some German souls or if I don’t really know the English words I will a bit.

[1:37] Chin my Deutschland is good but I love speaking it.

[1:42] But so I say How come you speak German.

[1:46] Because I went to school in Germany when I was in college in nineteen eighty.
There was an abroad program I had a professor named Dr. Reinhold plus in the United States and he was from Germany.
He got his Ph.D. in literature German literature and he operated abroad program so I studied German or participate in that.
So I went to school in Germany for one semester and I fell in love with Germany the culture and the way of thinking and I came back and named my first company.
An hour even though it’s not technically correct. European cabinets because they started building European cabinets in the 80s when nobody in America was building them.
So the Germans influenced me a lot.

[2:28] Wow. So do you have like any favorite German food place or whatever you are you’d like to look back to.

[2:37] Oh my gosh I have so many. While I love schnitzel so I love to go.

[2:43] I love to go there. I love going to Nuremberg and eat a little.
I think we call schnitzel but I don’t know what the correct name for. But I love to eat that.
And I love Nuremberg I love Heidelberg. I love Nords von Stein.
I love you take. I mean I’ve been everywhere in Germany. I spent more time in Germany almost than the United States.
So I know it backwards and forwards in every inch of it. It’s beautiful.
I love wandering just through the countryside on the freeway just wandering and meandering.

[3:12] It’s beautiful there.
I don’t know if you’re aware of that but where I’m hosting this podcast in the state of Baden voting block which is just next to Bavaria.
Can you pronounce Bonneville and back.

[3:28] Biden good. Oh great guy right. Yeah. EISENBERG And bob. Bob and bob.
Biden is one of my most beautiful cities in the world. You know you know this city. Yes. It’s like a..
Like a capital or. It’s like is it a capital or.
No it’s not a capital I no Berlin’s a capital but isn’t it a capital city state or no.

[3:48] Yeah it is actually very very close to where where I live.
And it’s close to the Black Forest. And it used to be i o some years some hundreds of years back it used to be some sort of capital status because to the like the Dukes of Bodden started out from Baden-Baden.

[4:09] All right. It’s one of the wealthiest places in Germany I know that correct.
Yes if you have something. Yeah. A king you go back to Barton Barton and there’s water that cures everything basically.

[4:19] And I’ve been in the hot springs there and the spores as beautiful. I love it.

[4:23] OK. Well thank you Paul. Having a conversation with you is a real treat.
You’re doing a lot of videos. You’re doing a lot of podcasts.
You’re doing a lot of blog posts. I have counted more than sixteen hundred videos on fast cop which didn’t create all by yourself.
There’s other authorized you have like more than 800 videos on your Web site on your YouTube channel and you have created more than 500 ish episodes of The American innovator podcast right.

[4:59] Wow that many I didn’t even know that. That’s a lot.

[5:02] Yeah. That’s a lot. So you don’t need much sleep.

[5:07] Well I do. You know I get about eight hours of sleep every night.
I’m just very intense and very deliberate about what I do every day.
I’m very organized in the way I do it.
But most importantly my practice of lean in the implementation of eliminating waste out of my life allows me to get done three four five times more than the average person.
If you hang around with me you go. How did you do all that.
And the answer is because I took time to slow down fix all the processes that I was engaged in on a daily basis so I could work in low.
And that’s why I get so much done and it appears like I’m living for lifetimes in one. But I’m really not.
I’m just using my brain OK so it’s not a Jedi trick it’s.
It’s organization. It’s continuous improvement.

[6:08] It is. And you know the funny thing about this Dr. Ragan that I was going to say was you know most people think that the key to success is being really smart you know or having advanced degrees and all that other stuff.
And it really is not. Life is so simple.
It’s unbelievable. But most people like to complicate things so I’ve my whole persona my whole,
concept in life is how do you simplify things so that everyone can access it quickly and easily.
And this is my mantra in life the way I approach it.

[6:49] OK so what what you’re saying is that there is something that you do but that’s also affecting others that’s also asking something from others also,
to support you here or to to do it the same way so you can work well together for example right.

[7:11] Right well I definitely am very deliberate to as well about the people that surround me so I don’t.
This may sound very harsh but I don’t associate with people that are not passionate about continuous improvement so nobody works for me and my company.
I don’t hang around with people my friends. Everyone is passionate about continuous improvement because if they’re not they drag me down,
and most people tolerate a lot of low level performance from the people in their sphere of influence and I don’t.
And that’s a very unusual characteristic okay.

[7:51] Is that is that helping you creating friendships.

[7:56] Everyone wants to be my friends. I have thousands of friends all over the world. I answered 300 communications every day.
I’ve already answered ones from probably 15 countries this morning.
Everybody wants to hear my breath. Everybody wants to come into my life my universe but I don’t let you in unless you’re passionate about continuous improvement.
And you said that very clear in your various videos that you put out there showing your company.
You said your welcoming people that you have to be on a certain level to understand also the improvements that you’ve made the accomplishments that you have made in fast cup.

[8:35] That’s right. Because here’s what happens. So everybody looks at what we’re doing and says Oh that would be great to be that way but we can’t do that because we’re we’re German or we’re Americans or we’re from Brazil. Our culture doesn’t support that.
And I just go get the hell out of here.
You’re full of dicks you’re full of excuses it doesn’t matter who you are where you’re from.
It’s all up here the minute you say I’m going to improve I’m going to eliminate waste and I’m going to solve the problems that I’m responsible for not to say I can’t do it because Bob and Mary or Gretchen doesn’t want to do it.
You have a sphere of influence. You need to work on your sphere of influence and forget about everyone else.
And that is a correct attitude and those are the people I’m looking for to bring in and say OK let’s work together.

[9:28] Does that help you to grow yourself.

[9:32] Oh my gosh I’m challenged nonstop. I mean every day is literally a tsunami of change for me.
I mean just today what we’ve been doing tween for 21 years we have the biggest companies in the world come here all the time. Amazon is here all the time to us baby to here Boeing’s here.
Bombardier is here. You couldn’t name Toyota is here. Everybody comes to fast cab to learn from us.
And yet today we’re going through one of the biggest transformations. Just today implementing one of the biggest changes we probably ever made in the history of our company because we’re growing nonstop.
It’s just it’s endless. What we’re learning.

[10:11] I’ve seen that you’re very open to new ideas.
You’re open to your own ideas you you could you open to external ideas you ask people for ideas you support people that have ideas.
But some people say you only learn great things by mistake.
And I was wondering when I read about you about the first fast cap was that a mistake.
Did you screw up really badly in your wood workshop so that you had to fix something very quickly.

[10:45] Oh very good boy. I never thought about it that way. Yeah I’m sure I was covering the deep back.
Yeah I was covering screw holes that screws that work put it perfectly in the melamine had cracked a little bit around the edge and it didn’t look good to the customers I had to put a cover over it that covered feedback.
I guess in reality yes that is not that is accurate. Yeah. It was.
It was I was covering a mistake or something that was not very appealing to look at because maybe my craftsmanship wasn’t at the highest level.

[11:16] So that was approximately is what’s the end of the 90s. So that’s more than 20 years ago ninety.

[11:22] Yeah. 97 97 is in basically August of 97.

[11:27] Did you have at that time already that enthusiasm for that lean innovation thing for that improvement did you know about lean innovation at that time.

[11:38] Well that’s a great question and this is something that I talk about a lot when I speak all over the world and this is the point.
So you take someone like me who’s naturally curious who loves to experiment who is OCD loves organization and you would say oh oh Paul you’re naturally lean.
Well maybe but not really because people who are highly organized people who like to experiment people who are always looking for better ways to do good things they’re not necessarily lean thinkers.

[12:12] And this is the big deception that’s going on. And this is what I had to be careful with myself because I had all those attributes.
What makes a lean thinker is someone who realizes that it’s not enough just to improve and find better ways but a lean thinker understands,
that most of everything they do is wakes,
a lean thinker understands that there are eight different kinds of waste and those ways are intersecting every thing they do every day.

[12:50] So if you’re OCD and you’re always improving you don’t really understand me.
You don’t really understand the depth of what Lean is all about.
You don’t really understand that this word mood or waste. The Japanese word is mood.
You don’t really understand the little tiny word m you D.A.
Packs so much power that it could literally rock your universe.

[13:16] Most people don’t understand that they are way others ways. Oh yeah. Get rid of waste all the time. None and you don’t understand that little word moved out,
is so powerful. It’s like a new killer reaction. And the minute you understand that it’s intersecting Every Breath You Take.
And your job in life is to eliminate it.
So instead of getting one lifetime you live 10 lifetimes that elite thinker or you do the work off of 10 people at the same time you got.

[13:53] Music.

[14:00] So Lena’s really simple super simple really simple and super powerful.
It’s that little tiny word but yet at home it’s massive.
When you really capture what’s going on.

[14:17] OK but now you’re talking about it’s not at the end but after more than twenty twenty five years of a journey.
What was the like the initial thing for you to look into,
into the lean in. What was that like. There was some initial phase or spark for you.

[14:40] Yes. Here is what happened. OK. So I talked about this in my book quite a bit but here is what happened.
Essentially it takes someone like myself who I wasn’t a good student and I really struggled in college even though I got straight A’s or I was just the dumbest kid out there.
But the bottom line is everything I did in life pretty much.
I was very successful at I invested the real estate a very early age I became very wealthy at a very early age.
I had a beautiful home. You know I I knew how to put one plus one together and make something significant.
I was trained by Bob Taylor the world renowned guitar. He’s a very close friend of mine. I talk to him every night every day but I talk to him regularly.
And I’ve been surrounded by very smart people my dad was an engineer.
John dynamics f cruise missile F 111 Atlas missile project.

[15:35] I had a lot of people around me that influenced me to make me very successful.

[15:41] So you got the picture here and then I went business of the year and then I was making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year my company was very successful.

[15:48] I was like one of those guys you look at and say Damn that dude’s good,
and then the Japanese came in and looked at my operation after I’d won,
business of the year and the bank told me they would give me any amount of money I wanted because I was so good and the Japanese said you suck,
and then when I went to Lexus and I went to Toyota.

[16:17] And I saw them I go. I saw.
That’s when I read. That’s when the light went on.

[16:24] That’s a very similar story. Like Porsche had in the beginning of the 90s.
And this was probably wasn’t as hard for you to hear something like that as it was for them.

[16:38] Well I wasn’t as good as Porsche. So you know it was easier for me. It was easier for me to know.
There were there were world renowned acclaimed car manufacturers. So no it was much more difficult for them.
You know they had a lot that a lot more history than I did. But I’m sure there were similar similar difficulties that they had to overcome.

[17:00] Yes they are basically just around the corner from us here.

[17:03] Yeah. Well I drive I just say you know I everything I have is Toyota even even though I drive a Porsche I have one course and the most beautiful Porsche in the world.
A limited edition spider. You know 918.
It’s outrageous. But the only reason I have that car is because it’s a Toyota I mostly that because Toyota help Porsche rebuild and re,
that’s why I was I had never own it I’d never own any other car because Toyota is the best in the world.
Well Toyota came in you know the story with Porsche and the rest is history. Now they build extraordinary quality.

[17:43] Okay. So if you complete that sentence the Toyota Production System is.

[17:48] The greatest philosophy of how to organize people and resources in the world.
OK. How’s that. How’s that.

[18:02] It sounds good to me. That’s what it that’s what it is.
It’s it’s not the best car maker. Detroit is not the best carmaker in the world the best manufacturer in the world.
And they’re not perfect and they think they’re terrible and I work with Toyota and Lexus all the time in Japan. I mean Toyota all the time.
I work with the vice president elect says they think they suck and that’s why they’re so good.

[18:26] I think you have to have a sense that certain being humble about what about your achievements.
And there’s always room for improvement if you understand something like that. It’s you will get everywhere.
I think yeah one of the philosophy one of the principles from the president of Toyota is that the moment you think you’re good that is the beginning of the decline.

[18:49] Yes. I see what you mean. I also see a lot of parallels between like the production system or lean,
which is very much oriented on organization and manufacturing to the stuff that I do which is like focused on product creation service creation business model creation,
which has lots of overlaps with because there’s organizational parts.
You have to do continuous improvements all the time because. And listening to the customer all the time outside is no innovation possible.
Right. I feel a lot about these things and I’m using some of your videos in my workshops as examples I’ll show people but tell people to watch that,
because you have such an intensity that helps people to understand these things. Quickly.

[19:42] Well I’m in Kansas because I love it. I’m intense because it improved my life. I mean because every day today I’m going to have a better day and tomorrow.
So why wouldn’t you be happy about that what’s what system or philosophy can systematically produce that outcome. I don’t know of any.

[19:59] OK but see you are very intense. At least that’s what comes across in the videos.
Do people feel like volume next to you sometimes.

[20:09] Yeah yeah yeah yeah people yeah yeah yeah. People.
Yeah. Exactly. People get wound up when they’re around. Yeah. If that’s what you’re asking.

[20:17] OK. So you like the fast fast charger also for a lot of people.

[20:23] And I I like and I like that and I enjoy that because of people around me. People are you know people are hyped up. People are really paying attention.
And I love it when you have great ideas or when you have a cost that you want to deliver and that want to people to pick it up on it.
You have to be driven in a way. Is it Is it possible or is it necessary for such a driven this to be trained as a woodworker.
Have OCD get a degree next vacation.
Having worked as a minister and teacher is playing the guitar and stuff like that to do something like that to be such Drew so driven.

[21:04] I mean that’s a mix of skills mix of skills that will probably just because everything fascinates me.
I mean everything I look at I’m curious about.
I don’t know why. I just maybe because no one ever slap my hand.
You know when I was trying to figure something out and if people ever do try to slap my hand I slap back because I think it’s very important for people to experiment.
So this is the culture that I’ve created vast job is everybody is running experiments all the time and nobody gets their hands slapped.
OK. Very important so we don’t. I understood that my father and my mother allowed me to run an experiment I’m very lucky.
And so I allow my people to run the experiment and anybody that kind of tamps that down or dismisses that idea.

[22:03] They’re not going to be on my good side for very long. They certainly won’t they certainly won’t last very long around me if that makes any sense.

[22:12] Yes I understand. I’ve written a short list of eleven points that hinder innovation and that what I did is I simply,
use all these examples all these sentences that you know we have never done that before. That will never work and stuff like that.

[22:28] Right right right right right. You want to know the biggest thing.
I’ll tell you the biggest thing Dr. Reichman that it limits innovation more than anything else is just one thing.
If you were to get rid of this one thing everything would go crazy.
Ego ego. Yes.
I’ll explain. So when one were innovating here at Fast camp,
and we come up with an idea and let’s say one of my associates my engineer or whoever it is comes up with an idea as the very first thing that will come out of my mouth is that’s a great idea. I didn’t think of that.
Your ideas better than my if the leader always feels like they have to be the smartest when they have to come up with the idea you will kill innovation so bad.
But we have fostered this culture where everyone’s always giving credit to the other person.
And it’s just explosive.

[23:23] I’ve seen the video that you created. Who are the 2 percent.
And right. And it has. I will link that in the show notes.
I like that listed. It is so perfect.

[23:34] Music.

[23:42] But still if you are if you have if you want to do something if you have to convince something you have to be convincing yourself.
You have to have some sort of ego so that is possibly some sort of balance between summer.

[23:58] Well I’m a very competent person.

[24:00] I’m very very competent but I think I understand I literally understand the physics,
of what happens both chemically emotionally psychologically and physically when a human being hears the words.
That’s a good idea.

[24:28] And I will take my ego or my need to be the one and push it aside so they can see and experience,
that that element wife,
you even take these things to such a level that you use these concepts and and discreet use that for private life lean the lean lifestyle let’s put it that way.

[24:57] You’ve written books about it. Yeah.
I’m gonna transform leaned into let’s say the private life right.

[25:06] Well let’s let’s let’s go back a little bit. So lean is not a lean. It’s like the simplest concept in the world.
We wanted his back outlets much back out 5000 years.

[25:15] OK lean is not something that’s new necessarily.
It is really what I call historical principles of greatness. These are this is the wisdom of the age.
And it really is can be summarized with one simple concept,
mankind was made very very special and unique.
We have this massive computer up here and this ability to solve problems and be created which is very unique.
There aren’t any other species like us and I would I believe personally that we were designed and made,
this special way and our purpose was to solve problems and improve and and understand and reason,
and all lean is is a focus on maximizing our purpose our real design,
so all Leon is doing is creating a culture or an environment where the very essence of why we were created is,
utilized and supported.

[26:31] That’s all it is. It’s such a simple concept.

[26:35] So everybody is an innovator.

[26:39] Everyone is an innovator. Everyone. Oh my gosh everyone.
We have special needs people that work here. We have blind people we have people who are quadriplegic. We have people that have.

[26:53] Every last one of them are just incredible OK. Yes yes. Every one of them.

[27:01] And if you break this down this continuous lean process and if you transfer that also to a continuous innovation thing is what I understand from you is you.
You do that in very very small steps. So to second line culture.
But two seconds every day is one of the most important things for you to fix what bugs you.

[27:26] That’s right. We’re just developing a habit. We’re just just like you get up in the morning and you walk into the bathroom and you grab your toothbrush toothpaste and you brush your teeth because that makes sense to do that.
Right. But that’s a habit or you get up in the morning and you make coffee every morning. It’s a habit.
All we want to do is create a small habit. It’s like making coffee as a small habit or brushing your teeth.
Small habit the habit of looking at something and say How can I make that better.
That didn’t work very well that bugs me.

[27:56] And then stopping and doing something about it that’s all too second mean suggesting,
OK I sometimes talk to two directors CEOs and they say oh no I have to invest time people don’t do that work.
If they do something better if they make that if they think about improvements.
That’s called a big contract victory right.

[28:23] Well well well that’s true.
You do have to invest time and money and do it all before but then then this is the other distinct feature or characteristic of a lean thinker vs.
An average person a lean thinker is long term,
they think long term they understand that there’s an investment up front but in the long term things are going to be way way better and they have a totally comfortable with spending money now knowing that they’ll be a perpetual,
or a return in perpetuity over and over and over again.
Nay nay nay. Wholly understand that math equation a lot of people are short term quarterly earnings.
You know all the other stuff and got to look good for the board and all that I could care less buying stuff.

[29:15] Oh yeah I see what you mean.
And especially if the argument is it’s two seconds a day I’m going to improve something that will over time be an hour save an hour for example.
But the investment is also very very small but in the end after a year or several years there will be huge huge savings nature’s right.
So give me what happened to me yesterday. So for the last four weeks we’ve been going through a transformation here at Fast cap and I have spent what eight hours a day for four weeks.
My time is very valuable you know trying to solve some problems.
And yesterday on the shop floor at 5 o’clock in the afternoon I was watching someone do something and I and also I had an epiphany. You know we don’t need to be doing that.
And then we ran a tests and indeed the test proved out what I was saying. So I spent four weeks of my time eight hours a day trying to solve a problem.
And yesterday we had the solution the problem and the problem will increase productivity by three hundred percent for 10 people a day.

[30:31] That’s substantial.

[30:33] That’s that’s staggering.

[30:36] Now this is not from a neophyte company this is from a company that again everybody comes to watch and learn from.
This is from a company has been doing lean the Toyota production system for 20 years.
This is from a guy who works in Japan who lead study missions who works with the top leaders in Japan Toyota Lexus.
You would think I would have had it figured out by now. Right.

[30:58] Well nobody’s perfect but that’s how radical that’s how radical of a transformation that can occur on a regular basis with everyone in perpetuity.
Yes I’m very lonely. You really stepped shot at staggering now.

[31:17] I can’t wait till the interview is over with. Even though I’m totally enjoying the interview with you because I’m a run out there we’re going to start implementing you know what I mean.
I’m so excited I can’t stand it.

[31:27] Yeah especially if you know that it’s going to help and it’s going to be a bit a lot of fun also doing it and seeing the results.
Yeah I see what you mean so let’s hurry up.

[31:39] No no no no no no. You know what I’m saying. I’m just saying yes that’s what’s on my mind. I can’t wait to go out there. Try it. It’s going to be incredible.

[31:46] OK. And but that that is sort of something that you have built on and over time you start collecting people around you that feel the same or something similar that do something similar that react similar if they are not the same.
I suppose nobody can be driving force up that’s cost us as much as you are.
You sort of in invite these people into you into your company as visitors as potential,
potential people that work for you that participate in the company and you even take people on on large tours you even have video is taking people on your tour of the company.
I’ve checked you had more than six hundred thousand YouTube views for your production to us.

[32:33] Oh yeah it’s crazy. It’s crazy. He has millions and millions of people have watched our videos.
It’s it’s incredible. And everything shot with the iPhone.
We have no film crew. We have no video production. Everything is just go by my boat instantly. Boom boom boom.
It’s unprecedented what we’re doing because it’s so simple.

[32:53] I’m using these examples. Also you’re not only a lean maniac you’re also a video maniac.
And I think it’s so important to document these things and to quickly quickly sort of transfer these ideas and and stuff like that via video and the iPhone is very very simple to use.
I use it myself all the time for everything. I’m preparing an online course right now with my iPhone.
I have a very lean setup for the for the podcast and stuff like that so I know that is important.
Oftentimes people don’t understand that even when I’m showing them your example it’s crazy because it’s so simple.
The simplicity and here frightening them.

[33:35] But but here’s the key in my mind.

[33:41] We should not spend very much time trying to convince those people we should put the message out there and find the people that get it and spend all of our time working with them,
otherwise we spend so much time and energy trying to persuade people.
And I made this mistake. I never do that. I just Look I’m. Oh you don’t get that. Get out of here.
When you when you when you wake up when you figure it out. Come on back. I’m happy to help you but I’m not going to. You can’t beat someone who’s not hungry.

[34:13] Yes I understand and you’re very vulnerable and open about that in the video and I think that’s great because you attract these people that are on that level that to understand the accomplishment right.

[34:25] Absolutely. And the beautiful thing is I had thousands of those people around the world. I mean I can’t keep up with the number of people contacting me all day long.
So it’s not like I don’t have people that want to learn. There’s so many people so I focus all my time and energy so I’m not wasted on the people that want to learn and not the people that want to tell me all the reason why they can do it.

[34:41] OK. Ben you’re a teacher you had a also a trained teacher but you’re also an entrepreneur.
Now you’re showing everybody the way your company works.
So you’re not afraid of competition you’re not afraid of losing somebody stealing these ideas.

[35:00] No I’m not. I’m not at all because first of all there are a couple things people that would steal the idea don’t have the right.

[35:14] Ingredients to compete with me. Right.
Because my whole philosophy is to get everybody’s participation.
People who steal other people’s ideas are about themselves. They’re not about everyone working as a team.
So I’m not threatened by them. Number one. And then the second point is the people who see me and see what I’m doing.
They have a certain level of moral turpitude and character.
And those people tend to be attracted here so they’re not out to be nefarious towards me. Does that make any sense.

[35:57] It doesn’t seem to fully understand what you’re saying. But it’s not that often that people are so subtle so open about their ideas about the way they do things and about their solutions,
because again in my eye I approach life very philosophically.

[36:17] I’m not.

[36:19] I really thought deeply about what’s going on in life and how the universe works.
And I understand that you could you could perpetrate all the evil in the world but good prevails.
And it is way more powerful than evil.
And so I choose to be on the side and doing the right thing and helping other human beings and helping them improve their life.
And so far in my life and fifty nine years old that’s worked out pretty damn good.

[36:52] Did that flying help you with that with that thoughts with these thoughts.

[36:59] Well wine wine had such a huge impact on me in many many ways.
Number one again I told you I wasn’t a very good student and it really is the very intellectual pursuit.
Flying is very difficult. The kind of wine I was used as instrument rated flying at twenty nine thousand feet.
Fly I flew to Germany I’ve flown all over the world are flown to Rome crossing our land three times.
So the answer is fine develop my my my intellectual acumen developed my ability to be very precise and not screw up my client.
Also allowed me to see the world and there are a lot of people in the world.
I mean it looks like there’s a lot of people in the world but the world is wide open. I mean I can’t even tell you.
It’s just so wide open people say we’re overpopulated. I’m glad you’re not a pilot because there’s nobody. The place is empty.
I mean it’s just vast empty empty everywhere.
You know not to mention the oceans. I mean but it make makes you really realize how small you are and how insignificant we are. That’s my perspective.

[38:11] I’m enclosing that sort of capsule of high above the ground.
I remember in my private pilot’s lessons flying from 12 to Maui and there was just water everywhere around us.
It was credible and there was just a little boat somewhere underneath me which I circled around and it was it was just a vast openness and which was very eye opening to me.

[38:40] Also I think you know I was very you know exact you know exactly what I’m talking about. And I’ve just flown across the United States and just open there’s no one. And I’m just like.
It’s incredible incredible.

[38:52] I drove across the United States many many years ago and it was just cornfields for a long stretch of this trip.

[39:02] I know I know. I mean certainly there are pockets of density of people and I’m not that I. Not at all but it’s it’s wide open.

[39:11] OK so you recommend learning how to fly or at least using the Microsoft flight simulator for having some ideas about flying.

[39:20] I think keep yours if you take aviation seriously.
I think it’s one of the most wonderful things you could ever do in your life.
It puts you in a whole different state of mind you know because you’re a pilot and you would probably agree with what I just said right.
You’re not the same person after you’ve learned how to fly a plane. It’s a different world.

[39:39] It gives you also a different sense of confidence about yourself I think.

[39:42] Absolutely. So but you need to take him seriously. I would never tell you when to dabble in it.
It’s a very serious thing. It’s very safe when you do it properly and that’s why I sold my plane to Why don’t fly anymore because I was flying two times a week incinerated in a very very adverse conditions you know lots of icing lots of bad weather.
And as soon as I started flying once every two weeks once every three weeks it became so dangerous.
And even now he’s very experienced with thousands of hours and you know flown in the most difficult situations 500 airports I mean that I knew oh I’m going to kill myself. So I sold the planes.
So it’s a flying it’s also about repetition of certain things you have you on it all you have to be very current.
We call it as a pilot you have to be current you have to you have to be very fluid because I’m fortune in my case my plane is gone almost three miles an hour the second you make a mistake it only takes two or three seconds for everything to pile up on you and it’s over with.
So you have to know what to do when to do it. You have to be very fluid and not like oh what would I do there.

[40:48] It’s too late. OK. I’m very much with you. I had some of these similar experiences also.
I didn’t fly that much and after I saw that it takes so much experience and keeping up with new regulations and technology and stuff like that I quit because I didn’t have the time to do it anymore.

[41:09] Do you see that’s all you that’s really the measure of your intelligence because most people aren’t smart enough to realize you know this is really dangerous right.
Most of it was of the ego you know because even people said to me Paul how can you quit. Why.
Everyone knows you as a pilot. You know you’re renowned for that. And I said I don’t care. I want to kill myself.

[41:31] Yes I see what you mean. It’s also an ego thing.

[41:34] Music.

[41:42] But I have such deep respect for the amount of diligence it takes to go on and get a matches and a page there.
It’s a big deal so I and I learned also just so you know from my German culture my German training that the Germans with junior teachers they have a deep respect for teachers.

[41:58] So I I I learned that deep respect for the professor the teacher and I learned that from Germany.
And so I always want to be respectful of that because I think it’s a big it is a big deal. Whether you say it is and it’s a very big deal.

[42:15] Yes. And but you also uses yourself you get a lot of respect for being a teacher coming,
through a very intense school of your manufacturing your company your dry Earl Germany also which makes it even more credible.
I think yeah I think I think experience is the most important thing.
Ultimately I think what you can marry good knowledge and experience together you have the magical alchemy that’s very important have good good underpinnings and understanding of the way systems work but then habit.
Married with real world experience and I think that’s why I’m so passionate because I’m not talking goes theories right now.
I’m out on the shop floor doing this every day and it’s the most incredible experience to be able to do what I do.

[43:06] And it took me a while to figure out what is so special about the things that your company does what it manufacturers,
and when you when you look at it very closely you find out that it is important that there is a measuring tape that has similar in LA some several things to,
be adjusted or to put it on the on the wood or whatever so.
So everything that you do or your company does is about nifty features and great times saving tool right.

[43:36] You got it. Exactly.

[43:38] Exactly. We’re just solving the things that bug us. That’s all we’re doing.
You know you put your tape measure on your side and you have to struggle with that split second to get the belt clip the clip.
So we put a thumb. We put a thumb release on there saying just press that it opens up every time.
Nobody is nobody did it but we did it.

[43:56] I don’t know what Wildes was thinking but I think there’s also a special way of how you create that.
OK. The first things you you created yourself the fast cap as a as a major idea and you’re still expanding on that as far as I can see.
Right. But then you started to ask your your people for ideas they came up with ideas but you also put out of web page and you say if you have a great idea that would fit with fast cup submit this get it.
Give me an idea of it. I will. Well from progressing the idea together.

[44:32] Yeah oh all day long. I mean and betters all day long. That’s all I do. I mean it’s just interfacing with these people all the time with their great ideas.
I mean we have a I have a on what ZAP.
I have something called a beta tester channel and I have all these woodworkers from all over North America who are who have become friends of mine.
And they’re also experts in their industry. And every time an Inventor Sends me a new idea I give it to the beta testers and I asked them what they think about it,
and so I’m just total connectivity with my customers in the real world.

[45:09] And I think that’s very very important. So you are connected to creators you are connected with potential customers and they are open to you and help you with their advice.

[45:19] Yeah. So another big thing here Clowes that’s so important is that is the way people access me.
So if you go on my website my phone number is right there.
I mean my cell phone number and no I mean we’re a big company we were 40 countries we do tens of millions of dollars with a business.
Nobody would. No president would ever put their cell phone on the website. I mean it’s just insane.
But yet I know I do it because I understand the principle and that is I want to be in touch with the real world.
I don’t want anyone filtering anything from me ever.
So everyone can get a hold of me so simply nobody ever struggles to get a hold. Did you struggle to get a hold of me.
No it’s easy peasy. It was pretty easy wasn’t it.
Yes and I answered right away. No assistant came.
Well or much drinkers will talk to you on this shirt I got calls. What’s up.

[46:13] Yeah and you react right away. It starts a conversation starting right away and it’s very easy to start to get into that conversation.
And if it leads somewhere that’s good. If it doesn’t lead anywhere.

[46:24] No no no that’s the end. So of course let’s go back. Let’s try. Let’s digress just a bit with that.
So the people that want to rip me off. Do you think they have. You think they’re doing this.
You think the people who want to steal my ideas are are that fluid and that open to new ideas from all these people.

[46:45] Oh it’s they their system is ripping stuff ups off so they know where to check for new ideas where some like certain patents and stuff like that and then ripping right patents. That’s their system.
Your system is different. The whole system is being open being open to this and starting a patent and process bringing that on the market right away and not wait for six months and stuff like that which I think is very important.

[47:12] It’s just difficult to compete with someone that is that agile.
I mean I’m not saying you can’t but our agility the speed the fluidity in which we move is pretty daunting.
Yes and then if anybody ever did rip me off would you people have we just we just out innovate them so much that their products become irrelevant literally we put people out of business people have ripped us off,
and then we just innovated so quickly they just quit Yeah.
That’s the best thing I think to do. Then see what you do in this situation also that you create several win win situations.
It’s for your company is for you it’s for the inventor it’s for the people working at the company for the partners for all these vendors that are connected to you and for the customers in the end that know how where to go for the good stuff.

[48:04] Right. So it’s a it’s a it’s a network. It’s a win win win win win whatever situation that was created.
And I have a theory about Westinghouse and Westinghouse sort of performing over Edison using actually the same thing that you do here.

[48:23] OK. I didn’t know that. Go ahead tell me your story.

[48:25] OK. If you’re talking about innovation and innovators and stuff like that we always talk about Edison we use Edison as an example he has 14 hundred patents in his name and stuff like that.
And we hardly ever talk about Westinghouse. His company developed AC and I think EDISON DEVELOPED DC right.
So that was a test test. Tesla was Tesla’s Westinghouse right.

[48:51] Tesla was working with Westinghouse and lots of other people were working with Westinghouse so Westinghouse himself had like 500 patents or something like that on his name.
But his whole network had at least 14 hundred network patents in their name.
And so what he did he was sort of helping the others to do something that he could do himself basically. But he would let them have the glory. Let them have part of the action and stuff like.

[49:21] I need to study that cause I didn’t know that. And that’s powerful because that’s exactly what my model is. He goes all the way with what the political will stop you. Let’s go. One more thing I could say the reason why I do that is because my target is to have a good life to be happy.
I’m happy when other people succeed and everything is just about me and me getting all the glory. It’s not really happiness.
Does that make sense. So great. Let somebody else get the credit. I don’t care.

[49:51] OK. And since he made sure that you have people around you that sort of tick the same way as you.
They sort of understand this message and they pick up on their opportunities on the way to do something.
The possibilities to do something themselves in this context.

[50:08] Yeah. And ultimately the target is to make the world a better place.
Who doesn’t want the world to be more peaceful more happy more people give it a lot more people collaborate in solving more problems so people can live a longer and more healthy and more prosperous life. That’s ultimately the target here.

[50:24] And by spreading a philosophy that enables that and fosters that is very very satisfying.

[50:33] OK. Well the cynics would say something very very different but it’s sometimes very hard to fight these cynics or these cynical comments.

[50:43] For now I ignore I ignore. They’ve always they’ve been they’ve been. I’m a student of history.
Those cynics have been around forever and they always lose.
Ultimately though they win if they win short term but they don’t win.

[50:57] Okay. I mean you just kind of look at the world today. I mean would you would you not take the world today over the world 200 years ago. Come on.
I mean we live in the most epic time. People say oh my gosh we have all these problems I’m gone.
You have no frickin clue what problems are you need to read history.
I mean you were lucky you lived at 30 years old just 80 years ago. Yes.
And today we had the most advanced medicine in the world. They could do remote operations people are living longer.
I mean we have capitalism and the free markets are spreading worldwide.
What is the wall came down. I didn’t come out. I mean it’s just like look at me and I’m I go to Vietnam you know in the 60s and 70s we were battling and killing each other over there.
You go there now. It’s the most incredible example of the free market that I’ve ever seen in my life.

[51:50] You know I mean Nancy credible was going on everywhere this channel has been almost everywhere.
There’s lots of opportunities opportunity for opportunity everywhere every everywhere.
Yeah. OK I’m with you.

[52:05] So the cynics are there that they don’t understand history they’re on a student history of a student describe it.

[52:11] It’s hard to go anywhere in the world. Certainly there’s bad things going on.
But there’s a very important phrase and this is the where this is really one of the driving things in my life compared to what I learned this from Dr.
Thomas Sole professor from the Hoover Institute at Stanford.
He’s a he’s an economist and he’s brilliant. And I read his books all the time and the big concepts compared to what. So.
So you talk about all this stuff. But compared to what.

[52:44] Compared to 80 years ago compared to 30 years ago where 40 years ago we’re living in paradise.
This is unbelievable what’s happened. The advancement of man.
You want to make it sound like we’re a bunch of what we’re we’re destroying everything.
You have no clue about history and what has transpired.

[53:02] OK so compared to what I always think that like dead trees and dinosaurs have really propelled this this,
this development and this good lifestyle that we’re having right now,
we need to sort of find new ways to decarbonise and still keep the lifestyle.

[53:27] Sure sure. We will and we will be it because if people are free to think about and solve problems we have innovated ourselves through just about everything that’s been thrown at out so far.
We’ll work it out. I don’t get all stressed out about it we’re gonna figure it out but everyone wants to wring wring their hands and we have all the.
And like just give it just give it five years. You won’t believe what will happen.

[53:54] OK so but actually to say something like that you have to be really really crazy about the possibilities of big ideas of knowing that big ideas can change things and end or that people,
really working on something can change can change things. So we’re back to the crazy I think.

[54:13] Yeah. But again big winner winner big ideas. So in reality clubs big ideas are just the the accumulation of small improvements.
So every day you are Musk wakes up and he makes all his thousands of engineers are making all these little improvements and then all of a sudden he announces we’ve got a new way to make solar panels. We’ve got a new way to launch someone to the moon.
We’ve got a new way to land a rocket back on Earth that isn’t just a big idea.
That’s accumulation or the aggregation of marginal gains every day.
Everyone working together to fix all these little things and all said boom we’ve got it.
But there is no such thing as a big idea in my mind. It’s really the aggregation of marginal gains.

[55:00] Is that did that help you to train for stuff like your two time iron man runs to lose weight.
I get a lot of hits and stuff like that. Absolutely.

[55:12] Luli Oh my gosh. That’s exactly how I did it. You know when I looked at how most people train for an ironman I thought I don’t have the time to do that.
But if I get up every morning and I do 50 pushups or 100 Barbies and I don’t go to bed until I’ve done that I’m going to be in a whole nother level of fitness.
Then if I worry about whether or not I ran five miles by 20 miles and swam one mile I wouldn’t worry about that.
I just focused on doing a minimal amount.
And then if I could work on extra things beyond that I did it but and then it was the aggregation of all the all those small little all push ups and herpes and everything I do.
I’ve been to Ironman and I’m old guy that used to be fat and overweight.

[56:04] He’s.

[56:05] Just such a video maniac that you post the videos of you being bit chubby and being ripped out.

[56:14] Yeah I know big guy but I want people to see what can happen. I mean my transformation has been nothing but I mean it’s unbelievable.
I can’t I well I can’t believe it now because the reality of my transformation was so simple healthwise. Here’s how simple it was.
Stop eating sugar sugars in everything. It’s in salad dressing. It’s an everything you put in your mouth.
It’s got a package around it read the ingredients on the back.
There’s sugar in it. So get rid of the sugars. That was the one thing and then started eating real fruits and vegetables every day and that’s it.
That’s all you. But you look at what most people eat it’s all crap.

[56:50] Right. They’re not eating real food. As soon as you start eating real food and get the sugar out of your diet you get thin and ripped. It’s that simple.

[56:57] It’s that simple. What made it that simple. What made you understand that.
Was there something special in your life that said open like a heart attack or something that changes now.

[57:07] Well what. Well the story is very simple I can tell it in 60 seconds. I had just an Everest base camp in Mt. Kilimanjaro.
I worked for a year and a half to get in shape to train to do both those mountains.
It was very difficult. And I thought Wow I’m pretty I’m pretty but now I’m pretty I’m in pretty good shape.
I didn’t want to lose that that that physical prowess that I just accomplished and so I happen to happenstance read a book called Eat Sleep move by Tom Ross.
I think it was Tom Roth wrote it and basically he said what I just said you.
He said there’s sugar in everything. Stop eating the sugar and start eating real foods.
So to recover from Mount Everest base camp I went to Thailand for a week because it was so you read my book you know I had to.
There’s a big disaster at Everest when I was there. Fifty people died in avalanches and stuff.
And I got flown out in a helicopter from Everest base camp. So I flew out.
I was out early like five or six days early. I want to recover I was cold. I went to Thailand.
I read this book on the plane when I got landed in Thailand. I woke up in the morning went to the breakfast bar and I only put fruits and vegetables on my plate and an egg. But I didn’t do any sugar no bread not all of the crap that everybody else.
And in one week I’d lost like 45 pounds.
And I go I’ve never lost four pounds that fast in my whole life.

[58:25] And I thought maybe there’s something to that. So I just kept sticking with not opening packages and eating real fruits and vegetables fish things like that. And I just kept losing weight.
And I go oh my gosh this is like brain dead simple. I just kept doing it. The rest is history.

[58:42] Now you have even more energy to be driven and follow more of what is driving you and Mom What’s your passion.

[58:51] Two or three acts more. Because when you when you’re physically fit and you’re not overweight.
Oh my gosh it’s it’s insane what you can do.

[59:03] Not to men not to mention just the way people look at you.
I mean when I walk into a room and people see me as old as I am and then I’m fit and my tone they go how do you do that.
Nobody looks like that 59 years old. Well you know it’s really simple.

[59:19] You stand in for this for this passion for this driven.
It’s for you. Is there something where you say I don’t want to do this anymore is there a certain place where you say you want to stop.

[59:31] Not for me. My my my target is just to train up more people around me who carry on the vision and so succession is is is really,
powerful so I see all these people helping other people living a life that’s full and meaningful.
That that’s that’s my end game right there. It’s not for me to sit back and I’ll guide you at all. No. I love being pushed.
My target is that my target is the ski when I’m 100.

[1:00:02] You were talking about succession and what you’re also saying is that you sort of trance you built a culture of lean,
which could be trends which is a culture of innovation in your company and in that work and people around you you’re picking up off things from others. You’re you’re giving back to others.
You’re supporting them so you sort of you have shaped this culture right.
Is that always the the job of the boss to shape the culture of innovation in a company.

[1:00:36] You know the number one goal for the leader of a company is it’s not the CEO it’s the chief culture officer.

[1:00:45] The culture is everything. And that is something that the top leader must nurture and protect jealously.
Is there other people that are as crazy as you around and fast cap that that will sort of,
carry you may maybe not as crazy as me when I’m in the facility but close when I’m out of the facility.

[1:01:13] That’s the honest answer. I mean there are people very very passionate here.
There’s no question about it but when I’m in the facility I’m kind of the leader. So you know that that.
That kind of takes over but they’re all crazy and they’re all doing it just like me.
But as crazy no maybe not as crazy when I’m here but when I’m not here.
Yes they become the leaders and they become the crazy ones.

[1:01:43] You are crazy.

[1:01:43] What went wrong in your childhood.

[1:01:51] No don’t worry about it.

[1:01:53] No it’s a great question what went wrong in my childhood. I think if there’s one thing I wish would have been different.

[1:02:04] I see you have to remember my pet my mother is very poor right.
My dad was raised in a farm in Colorado. Farmer lost the bar.
My mom was 1 9 9 sisters immigrants from from Greece lived very poor couple bedrooms nine girls.
You know it is difficult life right.
And so what they provided for me is a solid middle class foundation to improve upon.
I mean to go to the next level. So I don’t fault them for that.
But if I said if they did one thing differently I wish they would have spent more time nurturing me educating me refining me exposing me to,
two more things to be more deliberate about the way they developed me.

[1:02:56] For what. For where they came from. Compared to what. Remember. Compared to what they had.
They did a spectacular job obviously.

[1:03:05] I I would I would have loved to have gone to a military school I would have loved to have been gone to a refinement school.
I would have I would have loved to to have been coached to go to Harvard.
You know I would have loved to to be involved in politics at an early age to be exposed to political people. So I could understand that world.

[1:03:29] But they did with the means they had a very good job.

[1:03:36] Does that make sense. Yes it does. Paul we are.

[1:03:41] You have. You have given so much of your time for this conversation. I am very thankful for this. I’m very grateful for this possibility.
I owe it to you to sum up Otto to end this conversation. I have some some questions.
It is like from your own products. Do you have a like a favorite tool a favorite product that you prefer over all the others.

[1:04:08] I’m just thinking I use them all every day. What. What is my favorite. Oh yeah. Yeah absolutely.
Yeah. I had to think about it because I have 800 products so I had to think about Which one’s my favorite example.
Without a doubt Clydesdale came into the baths.
It’s so huge. It’s the biggest selling product we have and it’s something that I interface with every day and I interact. I mean everywhere I go it’s in front of me everywhere I go it makes my life easier it’s in my car.
It’s in the drawers in my office it’s and I don’t have an office but at my desk like stand up that it’s on my scooter. I have it on my scooter for all my tools. Yeah. Kaizen.

[1:04:47] It really grew on me. It took me a while watching some of your videos to understand the case and foam.
But I think it’s very very very good idea.
And in the end I think it would be even better if it didn’t read too much foam. But you had smaller cabinets so that way it would be even more lean right.
But you have to start somewhere you probably have drawers and you start with the case and foam and at some point of time when you recreate the facilities you start including small items.

[1:05:21] I think the beautiful thing about Kazan and it actually is a reduction product because yes in order to put everything in the foam you have to lay everything out that you have and you find that you have six nights to four screwdrivers and three pairs of pliers and you really are a what.
So you sort all that stuff out of it and now you just have one of everything you need. So it really is a great elimination towards great reduction too.

[1:05:43] I think that’s perfect. So the elimination and reduction is a very good tool for you as in your life.
Do you have like another favorite innovation tool.

[1:05:57] Well anything to do with the fast cap. The original product is really really cool because we used fast cap.
It’s this vinyl material with this really amazing adhesive for everything from making labels to covering screw holes to putting striping on flooring.
For I mean we use it for everything.
It’s just it’s everywhere OK.
And to get to something like that I have to think that you probably like the morning meeting a lot to transform things to to communicate and,
and have a great innovation tool that doesn’t take much time but is really really really important.

[1:06:44] Yeah the morning meetings. It’s the it’s the cornerstone of who we are. It’s how we create it.
It’s how we sustain is very important.
It’s how we sustain this culture. Most people don’t understand the importance of sustaining something.
So anytime you start anything in life it is a absolute total waste of time.
If you’re not capable of sustaining that so we started leaving and we were not able to sustain it.
It was in and how we did the morning meeting that we put in place the habit that would help us sustain what we were trying to do.

[1:07:30] Paul that is a perfect ending.
Thank you very much. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you very much for taking the time for this conversation.

[1:07:42] Good luck with the next project you’re working on right now. And I know you can’t get wet hit back. Yes.

[1:07:49] Perfect. Great. Thank you very much.

[1:07:53] My pleasure. Clausen was a pleasure. I love how wide ranging that subject was and how long it was because we really got to talk about a lot of different things. So is it my pleasure completely.

[1:08:04] Music.

[1:08:11] That was my conversation with Paul Akers.
He’s putting out there a lot of videos and books. I posted links in the show notes.
Subscribe to the podcast for automatic updates and your favorite app. And please leave a review at Potts Chase or dot com slash the 2.5 you’ll help others to discover the show.
Also check out listen notes dot com podcast resource. I have just discovered.

[1:08:44] Thank you to music producer emacs for creating the music for the show.
My name is Klaus the 2.5 conversations connecting innovators is being hosted in Baden-Württemberg in Germany thank you very much Paul Akers for the time and dedication.
Run the experiment, you never know what’s going to happen.

Music by

Immex – Soundcloud & conversation


Run the experiment, you never know what’s going to happen.

Paul Akers